Thursday, September 10, 2015
Letter to Q1b1a (L245) (Q-Y2200) (Q-BZ67) Jews On Our Historic Connections
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| My Neanderthal family, 10,000 years before Q1b1a came along from Siberia, Mongolia or parts of Turkey. According to 23&me, 2.9% of my genes come from Neanderthals. Everyone is thought to have a % of Neanderthal except those from Africa as Neanderthal were found mostly in Eurasia and Europe. |
"Neanderthals lived across Eurasia, as far north and west as the Britain, through part of the Middle East, to Uzbekistan. They lived in Eurasia 200,000 to 30,000 years ago, in the Pleistocene Epoch. This does not say they were ever in Mongolia or Siberia, but a cave was found in Turkey with remains.
"Hiking up a sheep trail in Turkey, the research team found one cave with a promising base of sediments — deep enough, and therefore old enough, to preserve fossils of the ancient migrants. In a brief survey, the scientists were encouraged when they found stone tools of the type used by Neanderthals between 250,000 and 100,000 years ago." 1
There are caves where they lived in Israel. Abraham lived only 4015 years ago. The Q1b1a came along at least 10,000 years after the last Neanderthals so they definitely were homo sapiens. Moses lived about from 1391 to 1271 BCE. As far as time goes, that was practically yesterday!
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| Abraham about to sacrifice his young son, Isaac. Muslims have changed our epic to sacrificing Ishmael. This story tells us that human sacrifice has come to an end. It had been done by Canaanites and the surrounding areas. |
The fact I have found is that Abraham was a J1. We are not. How did we pick up this haplogroup? What do we know about Q1b1a?
Q1b1: 5% of Ashkenazi Jewish men are found to be Q1b, of which is my father’s haplogroup (Q1b1a or Q-L245) and the latest is called Q-Y2200. Q originated in Central Asia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and the men migrated through northern Eurasia into the Americas. Q3 became Native Americans coming from a mutation that happened 8,000 to 12,000 years ago. Q1b’s are from the Altai Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and parts of Turkey. Khazaria (700's-900's) was thought to be the home of Q1b’s. Their common ancestor was a man 1,000 years ago. That would be around the time of 1,000 CE or when Jews were in Germany and France. Rashi was born in 1040 in Troyes, France and died in 1105. He lived and taught in Worms, Germany. He is about the most famous Biblical commentator we have and claimed descendency from King David (1010 -970 BCE). I claim him to be on my tree according to DNA findings.
Were we from Khazaria, a state that is now a southern part of Russia? The royal family of this state had converted to Judaism in the 8th century.
Update: 5/10/2012 Q1b1 is losing out in being considered as coming from the Royal family of Khazaria. DNA expert Rebekah Canada reports that they're thinking maybe G types and R1a1a types more likely candidates.
I doubt that R1a1a is Khazarian as they are found to be a line of Levites..
Double Update: 5/10/2012 from Rebekah Canada:
Is Q-L245 found in modern Arab populations? Yes
Is Q-L245 found in modern Anatolian populations? Yes
Is Q-L245 found in modern Iran and Iraq? Yes
Is Q-L245 found from the modern locations of the Ancient
city of Ur down to the tip of Saudi Arabia and Oman? Yes
Does that cover the places where ancient Israel, Judah, and
Sumaria were? Yes.
- Q1b1a (L245): found in the Middle East, among the Jews, in Central Europe and in Sicily as reported by eupedia. (see below).
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| My grandfather, Nathan Goldfus/Goldfoot 1872-1912, Q1b1a haplogroup; surname picked up in Germany before family migrating to Lithuania |
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| Nathan's son, Moshe (Maurice) and his daughter, me in Oregon. |
Q-L245 or Q1b1a is the haplogroup of my father's line. This is very exciting news today
because Abraham came from Ur, and this gives me the theory that he may also have been
of this group.
Update: 7/7/13: I did a tree from the Torah's information and Abraham would have been
the direct descendant of Jacob's 12 sons. So Moses would have been directly from
Abraham. Moses was of the Tribe of Levi. Moses was the 6th generation from Abraham
directly or his 3rd great grandson.
"According to commercial tests conducted by other
members
of the Jewish Oppenheimer family, the American theoretical
physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer (1904-1967) belonged to
haplogroup Q1b. Oppenheimer played a major role in the
Manhattan Project and is considered one of the fathers of
the atomic bomb.
My first cousin matches up with one male Oppenheimer as 5th cousin. There are many Oppenheimers, and this one missed my brother and myself in matching segments of our 23 chromosomes.
Update: 5/29/12; The latest news for our group is that our
origins were around Pakistan and India. This must include
the Assyrian Empire. Mesopotamia was a part of Assyria,
and in that empire sits Ur, which is located today in northern
Iraq. This Semitic Akkadian Kingdom was from the 25th
century BCE down to 608 BCE from the upper Tigris River
in Northern Mesopotamia.
because Abraham came from Ur, and this gives me the theory that he may also have been
of this group.
Update: 7/7/13: I did a tree from the Torah's information and Abraham would have been
the direct descendant of Jacob's 12 sons. So Moses would have been directly from
Abraham. Moses was of the Tribe of Levi. Moses was the 6th generation from Abraham
directly or his 3rd great grandson.
"According to commercial tests conducted by other
members
of the Jewish Oppenheimer family, the American theoretical
physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer (1904-1967) belonged to
haplogroup Q1b. Oppenheimer played a major role in the
Manhattan Project and is considered one of the fathers of
the atomic bomb.
My first cousin matches up with one male Oppenheimer as 5th cousin. There are many Oppenheimers, and this one missed my brother and myself in matching segments of our 23 chromosomes.
Update: 5/29/12; The latest news for our group is that our
origins were around Pakistan and India. This must include
the Assyrian Empire. Mesopotamia was a part of Assyria,
and in that empire sits Ur, which is located today in northern
Iraq. This Semitic Akkadian Kingdom was from the 25th
century BCE down to 608 BCE from the upper Tigris River
in Northern Mesopotamia.
The stage on which Hebrew history takes place is a varied and a troubled place. Hebrew history, as told by the Hebrews, begins in Mesopotamia, in the cities of Ur in the south and Haran in the north.
Our history is that Terah, father of Abram, came with the Habiru, who could have been mercenaries or slaves, use in the Tel el-amarna tables and in other documents of the 15th and 14th centuries BCE. Many scholars are of the opinion that the word Habiru is identical with Ivri (i) m or Hebrews and some believe that the reference in the Tel el-Amarna tablets to the threat of the Habiru, to Canaanite cities alludes to one of the stages in the Israelite conquest of Canaan.
Mesopotamia was a rich agricultural area, fed by irrigation from the two rivers which give it its name: the Tigris and the Euphrates. Powerful city-states, such as Ur, rose up in this fertile area, and these city-states would eventually become the foundation of mighty empires, such as the Akkadian and Amorite empires.
Our history is that Terah, father of Abram, came with the Habiru, who could have been mercenaries or slaves, use in the Tel el-amarna tables and in other documents of the 15th and 14th centuries BCE. Many scholars are of the opinion that the word Habiru is identical with Ivri (i) m or Hebrews and some believe that the reference in the Tel el-Amarna tablets to the threat of the Habiru, to Canaanite cities alludes to one of the stages in the Israelite conquest of Canaan.
Mesopotamia was a rich agricultural area, fed by irrigation from the two rivers which give it its name: the Tigris and the Euphrates. Powerful city-states, such as Ur, rose up in this fertile area, and these city-states would eventually become the foundation of mighty empires, such as the Akkadian and Amorite empires.
As you see, much points to Ur as to being our origins.
Abraham's father was Terah, and he had 2 brothers, Nahor
and Haran. Abraham, first called Abram, married Sarai.
Terah took his son, Abram, and Lot, the son of Haran, his
grandson, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of Abram,
his son, and they departed with them from Ur Kasdim to go
to the land of Canaan. they arrived at Haran and they
settled there.
Abraham's father was Terah, and he had 2 brothers, Nahor
and Haran. Abraham, first called Abram, married Sarai.
Terah took his son, Abram, and Lot, the son of Haran, his
grandson, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of Abram,
his son, and they departed with them from Ur Kasdim to go
to the land of Canaan. they arrived at Haran and they
settled there.
From history on the Haibru: the "Habiru" or "Hapiru" had been living in Canaan since at least the reign of Pharoah Akhenaton of Egypt in the 14th Century BC, and probably earlier. The Habiru were apparently wandering nomads who lived among, but were not part of, general Canaanite society. A people by the same name had been first mentioned in Sumerian records as living in Southern Mesopotamia 1,000 years earlier, and like the "Canaanite" Habiru, were nomads who were considered aliens living among the Sumerian society of the region.
Indeed, it is interesting that one can almost trace, in the historical record, a migration of these people from Southern Mesopotamia through central and northern Mesopotamia to Palestine, which is very similar to the route described for Abraham in the Bible.
The difference is that the historical texts mentioning the Habiru are all separated by several hundred years (Ur--2150 BC; north-central Mesopotamia--1550 BC; Palestine--1350 BC), so clearly we aren't talking about the migration of a single family as portrayed in the Bible. Instead, the Biblical narrative of Abraham and the Patriarchs would more likely be a metaphor for a folk migration which took place over a period of 1,000 years.
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| Joshua depicted entering Canaan at the end of the Exodus of 40 years. I don't think it was that bad. On the other hand, some 600,000 Israelites (601,730 to be actual) were being led by him, and it could have been a little daunting for the Canaanites who refused to help but instead fought against them. The tribe of Judah, from where all Jews came from today, made up 76,500 of them. |
We can believe that Moses was given this information in order to put it in the Torah.
We can believe that Moses was given this information by G-d. When I write, I feel I am in a difference space and time quite often in my concentration. I get words and ideas I wonder about afterwords and feel I had been helped by a higher power than my own brain. It is irrelevant how ideas came to Moses since what he wrote has been tested over a huge expanse of time being exceptional. We still are in awe of what is written and how it still applies. Today, more students do understand as we also have evolved.
Our Tanakh is full of history, facts, geography, ideas, and one cannot read it like a novel or recipe book. In our culture, this book has been the epitomy of a PhD degree, needing very high intelligence to get the meat out of it. It has been the challenge of the gifted of which many Ashkenazis had congregated in the town of Worms, Rhineland to discuss and deliberate over this special book.
Abraham was born in the 2nd millennium BCE. His family had come there from the area around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Somehow, that's where we also may have stopped on our migration from parts of Turkey or Siberia or Mongolia. We met up with the Mesopotamians called the Haibru (Hebrews).
Jewish history (or the history of the Jewish people)" is the history of the Jews, and their religion and culture, as it developed and interacted with other peoples, religions and cultures. Although Judaism as a religion first appears in Greek records during the Hellenistic period and the earliest mention of Israel is inscribed on the Merneptah Stele dated 1213–1203 BCE, religious literature tells the story of Israelites going back at least as far as c. 1500 BCE" One interesting fact is that Moses did not leave any descendants according to our records. It was Aaron who passed on the J1 gene with his many descendants as he had many children. Moses was raised by the Egyptian princess, daughter of the pharoah, and given the best of education. He could read and write. It was he who wrote the 5 books of Moses that make up the first part of the Tanakh and is the Torah. As an aside, .I just want to add that Q1b1a have a lot of writers in their members as found in a leader we had several years ago. It seemed to be a major skill shared in the group overall.
"Haplogroup Q-M242 is one of the two branches of haplogroup P-M45. Haplogroup Q-M242 is believed to have arisen in North Asia approximately 17,000 to 22,000 years ago.[7] (In another source, 31,400YBP)[3] It has had multiple origins proposed. Much of the conflict may be attributed to limited sample sizes and early definitions that used a combination of the M242, P36.2, and MEH2 SNPs as defining mutations. (P-M45: Haplogroup P also includes approximately one third to two thirds of the males amongst various populations of Central Asia, South Asia and continental North Asia
The basal Haplogroup P* and/or its subclade P1 is predominant among some ethnic minorities in North Asia and island South East Asia." 3
This haplogroup has many diverse haplotypes. There also are over a dozen subclades that have been sampled and identified in modern populations." 2 "Haplogroup Q-M242 may be one of the most widely distributed Y-chromosome lineages in the modern world. It is found in the Americas, North Africa, East Asia, South Asia, West Asia, and in Europe....The frequency of haplogroup Q-M242 in Norway and Sweden is about 3%. It is believed that almost all of these are either Q-L527 or Q-L804. Around 2.5% of Slovak males are in haplogroup Q-M242.
So Q1b1a were in Ur at the time of Abraham most likely. If so, we also were in Egypt with Jacob's family unit of 70. 400 years later, we then could have been on the Exodus with Moses and enough of us lived to be with Joshua and enter the land of Canaan once again and conquer it to live in the parts allotted to the 12 tribes of which we must have been with the tribe of Judah and or Benjamin which adjoined it. Here we are! Some of us still are Jews!
Updated origins 12/9/15 Resource: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100707/full/466176a.html 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P_(Y-DNA) 3.
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=12186
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://www.livescience.com/28036-neanderthals-facts-about-our-extinct-human-relatives.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebland.html
The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia on Habiru.
http://goldfoot_genealogy.blogspot.com/2014/11/our-haplogroup-of-q1b1a-or-q-l245.html
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews loads of information on our Jewish history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people most interesting
Labels: Abraham, Canaan, Habiru, Jews, Moses, Neanderthals, Origins, Q1b1a
Comments:
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Your theory makes me feel more comfortable as a Jew, rather than being the descendant of a pagan clan from Mongolia. The story is that the king and his noblemen(clan)converted to Judaism some 1250 years ago, from the Pagan Tengri religion. They theorized that there were 4000 noblemen who converted, and 1000-1500 entered into the Ashkenazi community some 800 years ago. Prey tell, what happened to the 2500-3000 others. The 3% in Norway, Gothenburg, and Holstein(Denmark-Angles) and many others who entered Europe fighting with Atilla long before Bulan's invasion certainly can account for the spread of Q1b1a. The Ashkenazi % of Q1b1a would be mush higher, considering the rate of murder of mostly Ashkenazi Jews in the past 1000 years.
Further, the physical description of Ashina Khazars, and our own oral tradition passed down for the past 800 years is consistent with being descendants of such a formidable. Just to remind you that Sara and Abraham were born Pagans as well. Don't forget that the source of your doubts is from the mouth of an Arab Idolator, and went into your eyes and ears. Smart people have every capability of being evil. Just sayin....
Further, the physical description of Ashina Khazars, and our own oral tradition passed down for the past 800 years is consistent with being descendants of such a formidable. Just to remind you that Sara and Abraham were born Pagans as well. Don't forget that the source of your doubts is from the mouth of an Arab Idolator, and went into your eyes and ears. Smart people have every capability of being evil. Just sayin....
Thanks for sharing, nice post! Post really provice useful information!
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